re: doctor who "end of time", pt. 1

[kaydeefalls]

WHAT.

...

NO, SRSLY, WHAT.

Some completely disjointed reaction thoughts:

That kept me 100% fascinated all the way through, unlike the previous three specials, so: win.

John Simm looked like he had the time of his life filming that. Also win.

Ten's little emotional breakdown in the cafe with Wilf made me cry. Understated and oh, pitch-perfect. Oh, Doctor.

TIME LORDS RETURN. WHAT. I figured that was coming as soon as they said "it mends whole planets!" Because, well, clearly. But if this winds up as a massive undo button for everything that's happened to Nine & Ten, I will seriously lose my shit.

Re: "immortality machine" -- oh, Abigail, honey, this was not going to work out well for you even if it had worked. You and Jack should have a nice long chitchat about the realities of immortality, and why that was never, every going to be a good idea. (Also, for some reason, I somehow wanted Jack to randomly walk out of the machine when it got turned on. I don't know why.)

DONNA. DONNA DONNA DONNA DONNA!

The line about how they scavenged the thing from the fall of Torchwood kind of broke my heart a little.

They really aren't going to touch the ramifications of "Children of Earth" on Who, are they? That kind of annoys me. Part of what I love about the Whoniverse is that everything is connected. "Journey's End" was narrative porn for me in that sense. Torchwood, as a program, does a FANTASTIC job of keeping itself in touch with events of Doctor Who; I haven't watched SJA, so I can't judge there, but from what I've heard, it's also A+++ in that area. But when you have something so massively game-changing for one set of characters that doesn't have ANY ramifications in the broader universe, I get tetchy. I understand the logic of this from a marketing/production perspective, but I'm all about the storytelling, and narratively, it really, really irks me. Honestly, if I have my druthers, Jack won't appear in the next part at all (apart from flashbacks; I suspect there will be a crapload of flashbacks to previous episodes in the finale). Because having Jack onscreen without addressing CoE would just...no. His character has been irrevocably altered, and having him back in Who as per his usual would be fairly horrific at this point.

BUT ANYWAY, tangents about Torchwood aside, that was a really interesting episode, and I am all a-flail to see what comes next. Even knowing that it will break my heart.

Comments

[pocky_slash.livejournal.com]

Re: Abigail: My first thought was, bizarrely, "NO! There can't be an immortal character named Abigail! I'll have to change the name of the mentor of my time-travel-scifi-fantasy-whatever novel!"

But if this winds up as a massive undo button for everything that's happened to Nine & Ten, I will seriously lose my shit.

I... will not be surprised about this. I felt like the last ten/fifteen minutes of "Journey's End" were a giant reset button for S1-S4 of the new series, so it really wouldn't surprise me if RTD resets ALL of canon before he leaves. (I am a little bitter about "Journey's End" still. I am perhaps more bitter about it than I am bitter about CoE. Which I will get to in a moment.)

I see your DONNA. DONNA DONNA DONNA DONNA! and raise you another DONNA! DONNA! DONNA! DONNA! Because...Donna!

Now the word "Donna" has stopped looking like a word :O

Re: John Simm: John Simm reminded me why I love John Simm. I wasn't super-thrilled by the S3 finale/arc, so I always forget that I really did adore John Simm as the Master.

Re: CoE:

::deep breath::

My issues with CoE have less to do with Ianto and the destruction of the Hub (although they do have to do with those things too) than they do with THE COMPLETE LACK OF INVOLVEMENT OF THE REST OF THE WHONIVERSE. Okay, I get what they were trying to do with the lack of the Doctor showing up and it was a nice juxtaposition to the first mention/demonstration of Torchwood in the Whoniverse. HOWEVER, you can't tell me that Mickey Smith and Sarah Jane and her adorable band of ruffians and Martha Jones just put their feet up and gave in. SARAH JANE ESPECIALLY. The Jones family! Sally Sparrow! The Earth of this universe is filled with people who have proven they'll stand up against aliens to save the planet. They told this intense, graphic, action-packed story that did not at all, in my opinion, fit into the universe that it was already established Torchwood fit into. (Ugh, ignore my horrible grammar.) You can't tell me that, in a world with not one, but at least TWO secret organizations dedicated to fighting aliens, the government's first thought at alien contact was, "SHIT! Give them what they want and never tell anyone about this ever!"

Mickey Smith would have fucking kicked the 456's gaseous asses all over London. You cannot convince me otherwise.

Sorry for all the word-vomit that had little to do with the actual Who special :D

(Also, I read your story and I'm reading it once more right now. Well, as soon as I finish writing about Gwen needling Donna [Noble] to ask Toby out.)

[kaydeefalls.livejournal.com]

My issues with CoE have less to do with Ianto and the destruction of the Hub (although they do have to do with those things too) than they do with THE COMPLETE LACK OF INVOLVEMENT OF THE REST OF THE WHONIVERSE.
THIS. EXACTLY THIS. Ianto broke my heart into a billion tiny pieces, of course, but part of Torchwood is dying young, and this was always going to happen at some point. It's the way it was handled that pissed me off -- CoE was not a Torchwood story. It was a fascinating, well-written five hours of television that Torchwood was shunted into as an afterthought, and that was not okay. It didn't fit into the Whoniverse at all. Gah.

Mickey Smith would have fucking kicked the 456's gaseous asses all over London.
Um, clearly.

Okay, so that wound up being all about CoE and not at all about Who, but I think that's the source of my anxiety and mistrust, here -- that RTD will use End of Time to continue breaking his toys just for the hell of it. Which makes NO SENSE to me, actually -- he created such a marvelous universe with New Who and its spin-offs, and there are so many wonderful story arcs and characters and expansions of the Who universe that came before -- and then this. Just, what?

[curriejean.livejournal.com]

'(Also, for some reason, I somehow wanted Jack to randomly walk out of the machine when it got turned on. I don't know why.)'

YANA.

[kaydeefalls.livejournal.com]

SNERK.

[nevercheshire.livejournal.com]

I was glued to the screen for this one too!

I can forgive a lot of wtf that was going on due to the wonderfulness of Wilf and Donna (sniffles) but if I get my heart broken by them, on top of the tears for 10 I'll lose it aieeee! I'm scared!

and COE yes, seems so sort of stuck on doesn't it? I really don't see why it can't be at least addressed on Who, since suicide (after the Doctor saves you!) is now part of canon. All kinds of horrible things have happened on Who, The Doctor killed his whole planet including his family.

I think what worries me even more is it won't be addressed in series 4 of Torchwood either. COE would change everything, governments could collapse, citizens would arm themselves etc. Hope I'm wrong but I can see it being glossed over. Till the 456 are brought back for some season finale.

[kaydeefalls.livejournal.com]

Oh, I've already prepared for my heart being broken. It's just HOW at this point, and I don't really trust Russell T Davies anymore. He likes breaking his toys a little too much for my tastes.

[tardis-stowaway.livejournal.com]

But if this winds up as a massive undo button for everything that's happened to Nine & Ten, I will seriously lose my shit.

THIS*9. I've been avoiding spoilers, but I've seen people speculate that RTD might pull out the big red reset button. I hadn't thought it was likely or a good idea, but now that it looks disturbingly possible I am worried. I like continuity. I like actions having consequences. I like it when "impossible" means something, especially when that word is applied to changing the outcome of the Time War. God help my twisted little soul, I like how profound heartbreak balances against madcap joy in the Doctor. A big reset would undo all of those things.

I don't even like the idea of undoing the Time War and bringing back Gallifrey even if the rest of Nine and Ten's era stands. Perhaps it's because I imprinted on Nine, but the Time War is central to how I watch Doctor Who. Even when I watch classic Who, it has a poignancy whenever Gallifrey or other Time Lords appear because of the loss I know will come. As much as I would like for the Doctor's sake to have that trauma taken away, as a member of the audience I prefer the slow process of watching him learn to live fully despite the weight of all that loneliness and guilt.

Errr, that got long and ranty. Sorry!

Because having Jack onscreen without addressing CoE would just...no.

*shudder* I agree with you. Failing to address CoE's ramifications on Earth is bad enough (it would have been hard to fit it into such a crowded episode, but really, some of that plot clutter and Master cackling could have been cut). If they ignore its effects on Jack, it will be a grievous storytelling mistake.

[kaydeefalls.livejournal.com]

Yes, this, exactly. Continuity in storytelling, consequences, all of this. I can handle RTD going to dark places, for the most part, when it serves the story (as opposed to his notable fondness for breaking his toys just for the hell of it). "Journey's End" may have broken my heart, but I actually liked all of the narrative choices made in it, even Donna -- because there are consequences, and the Doctor does terrible things to prevent even more terrible things, and, yes. Awful and tragic, but yes. A reset would just -- invalidate everything we've loved and invested into this show. Ugh. (I don't actually believe he's going to go there; I'm just nervous.)