Too many posts in too little time, I feel like such a spammer...

[kaydeefalls]

I've noticed three main issues people have had with TTT. They're interesting, because I wasn't offended by any of them.

1. Faramir.
Everyone seems to hate what PJ did to his character. I can certainly see where the anti-movie!Faramir people are coming from. This is a huge departure from the books. But I like this Faramir a lot better. Frankly, book!Faramir bored the hell out of me. He was one case where the black-and-white nature of good vs. evil was a bit too strong. No one should be allowed to be that good. His character was completely flawless, and pure-as-driven-snow characterization has always annoyed me. Why SHOULD he automatically be on Frodo's side, anyway? He's only human. The Ring ought to have the same affect on him as on anyone else. I just think movie!Faramir is more realistic. My biggest problem with PJ's Faramir is that he didn't have ENOUGH screentime -- we didn't see quite enough of his motivations, and his sudden change of heart was TOO sudden. But I'm glad he's a conflicted character.

2. The ending.
THIS is why I love spoilers. Because I've known for several months that Shelob has been booted to RotK. If I hadn't known that, I would've probably been just as hideously disappointed by the ending as everyone else. As it is, I've been in a mild state of panic and pessimism over the ending for months. I had a horrid notion that TTT would end exactly the way FotR did, with Frodo and Sam looking out towards Mordor and saying reassuring things to each other. Which, in a way, IS how it ends -- but the Gollum bit makes all the difference in the world. The original Shelob cliffhanger would have absolutely killed me. I wouldn't be able to watch that scene over and over again, knowing that there would be twelve months before any resolution. Torture, absolute torture, worse than having Merry and Pippin carted off by Uruk-hai (and Lydia can tell you all the effect THAT had on me, every single viewing). But Gollum's dark little twisted monologue? Fucking perfect, that. Dark and menacing and with just enough hinting at RotK to keep newbies intrigued and cause book fans to writhe in their seats and beg for more. Except, apparently I'm one of very few book fans who appreciate it. Oh, well.

3. The Frodo/Sam relationship.
I will not be long-winded on this. Just, did I want to see more touching/cuddling/shagging? Well, yes, of course. But their dynamic was brilliant all the same. You always end up hurting the one you love most, don't you? And once Frodo pulls Sting on Sam -- come on, whose heart DIDN'T break at the expression on Sam's face? Frodo's realization of what he'd just done was perfect as well. No huggy-kissy apologies, just stunned horror at himself: "I don't think I can do this anymore..." That just WORKED for me.

Look, I certainly had my problems with TTT. But not these. And it's very interesting to hear others' opinions on them, even though most people disagree with me...

Incidentally, am I the only one who doesn't think Frodo is offering the Ring to the Nazgul, in Osgiliath? I thought he was about to claim it for himself, actually, with some excellently creepy Mount Doom foreshadowing. But I could very well be wrong. Must go see film again to be sure. ;)

Comments

[juleskicks.livejournal.com]

Can I just say, to everything you've said...

word.

'Specially on the Faramir thing. But word to everything else, too.

[kaydeefalls.livejournal.com]

I am not alone! ::hugs::

[idiosyncratic.livejournal.com]

Just wanted to say...

1) I agree with everything you've said here. Book!Faramir is too perfect...almost not human in a way. At least not human in a true and honest portrayal of the species. Movie!Faramir is much more believable, much more 'human'. And it's making me crazy that everyone is saying how Movie!Faramir is just look Boromir in wanting the ring. Wrong. Was I the only one who HEARD him say that he was sending the ring to Gondor to his FATHER? Don't recall him saying that he was taking it for himself.

2) Again, yes. I like the ending. I personally think Shelob in this movie would have been too much. And the people who haven't read the books would have been screaming for blood if the movie had ended the same way the book does.

3) Can't say much on this one. Honestly, I think the movie had just the right amount of Sam/Frodo. I did love how their dynamic grows in the movie. Of course, I'm not a big Sam/Frodo fan, either.

And no, you're not the only one. To me, Frodo didn't at all look like he was offering the ring to the Nazgul. It looked like he was about to put it on and claim it for himself. Just my .02 on it though.

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[kaydeefalls.livejournal.com]

Was I the only one who HEARD him say that he was sending the ring to Gondor to his FATHER?
That's funny, I'm pretty sure I heard that line, too...

It's just nice to know that other people felt the same way about all this. And! Yes! Frodo claiming the ring! Thank you!

[rynalwyn.livejournal.com]

Incidentally, am I the only one who doesn't think Frodo is offering the Ring to the Nazgul, in Osgiliath? I thought he was about to claim it for himself, actually, with some excellently creepy Mount Doom foreshadowing. But I could very well be wrong. Must go see film again to be sure. ;)

He was about to put it on, clearly. Which sort of goes against what seems to be the common view that he was offering it to the Nazgul. At least, not explicitly, as putting it on would have pretty much the same effect.

I like everything you had to say. :)

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[kaydeefalls.livejournal.com]

He was about to put it on, clearly. Which sort of goes against what seems to be the common view that he was offering it to the Nazgul.

Yupyup. That's what I saw. We've SEEN Frodo offer the Ring to people. It does NOT involve him putting it on his own finger. Thank you.

[lush-rimbaud.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, that's interesting. The only flaw in that argument, IMHO, is that the Nazgul was calling him out there so that it could take the Ring, and since he went out there, its effort to control him was apparently successful. If he was under the Nazgul's control, then how could he have had enough willpower to claim the Ring? Unless you think the Nazgul wanted him to claim the Ring, so that... I don't know. Meh. Any thoughts?

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[kaydeefalls.livejournal.com]

I suppose that could be true. I assumed it was the Ring calling him, but yes, that's usually inspired by the Nazgul. Now that I think about it, yes, I DO think the Nazgul want him to claim the Ring. They (and Sauron) can always see him more clearly when he's wearing the Ring, and that's just when he casually slips it on. Think RotK. The INSTANT Frodo claims the Ring, all hell breaks loose, and I'm not talking about Gollum. Sauron goes beserk, the Ringwraiths abandon battle and go tearing off towards Mount Doom. If Movie!Frodo had claimed the Ring in Osgiliath, he would've been toast within seconds.

[lush-rimbaud.livejournal.com]

They (and Sauron) can always see him more clearly when he's wearing the Ring, and that's just when he casually slips it on.

That makes sense. Like at Weathertop--they made him put on the Ring there. And I assume that, if he was just about to slip on the Ring in Osgiliath, it was because the Nazgul wanted to see him more clearly.

[kaydeefalls.livejournal.com]

Right. Mandatory Gandalf quote: "Never put it on, for they [the Ringwraiths] will be drawn to its power..." Or something like that. And not only Weathertop. Prancing Pony, too. The wraiths whirl right around on those horses and gallop off for Bree.

But I don't think the Nazgul are making him do it. The Ring is. The Ring wants the Nazgul to find him, so they can kill him and take it back to Sauron. When the Nazgul are nearby, the Ring goes nuts with the not-so-subliminal messages to Frodo.

Either way, he still wasn't offering it to the Nazgul. So. Yeah.

[gabbyhope.livejournal.com]

But I'm glad he's a conflicted character.

I loved this. Absolutely agree with you, there. He goes by so quickly in the book... and by the last part it's just, oh, yes, poor Faramir. Not enough time spent on him. But PJ allows him some pathos, some of the, well, is he a good witch or a bad witch? (ha, there should be an icon that says that.) And the possibilities went very well. Of course WE know that he lets Frodo go. How could the story progress if he didn't? He is innately good at heart. But I still cringed and fidgeted in my seat when he was messing with Frodo and Sam and Gollum. Men are weak. And even though he went through changes, Faramir proved stronger than his brother in the end... both in the movie and in the book. So I don't see why it's such a big fuss; it turned out well. It gave him more to work with... so that when RotK rolls around and, eep, Faramir's in trouble!, we'll sympathize with him. And not just because he's pretty. ...right.

I don't really have any major qualms with TTT. Strange, because I had so many with Fellowship. Of course, there's the problem with there not being enough of the Ents, enough to their story, enough to their involvement... but, hell. I'm PJ's love slave for life. I'll let it slide.

Rock on, kaydee.

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[kaydeefalls.livejournal.com]

so that when RotK rolls around and, eep, Faramir's in trouble!, we'll sympathize with him.

EXACTLY. Everyone who actually cared about Faramir Flambé in the book, raise your hand. ::peers around, notices a few hands:: Okay, fine, everyone who only cared about Faramir because PIPPIN was worried, raise your hand. ::nods:: Thought so.

I'm PJ's love slave for life. I'll let it slide.

::snickers:: I think you might have some competition, there...

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[gabbyhope.livejournal.com]

Okay, fine, everyone who only cared about Faramir because PIPPIN was worried, raise your hand. ::nods:: Thought so.

But, but c'mon. If Pippin was worried about Sauron's red-eye, I'd care. It's freakin' Pippin, man. Can't. Resist. The. Charm.

I think you might have some competition, there...

Yes, but there's a lot of PJ love to go around, isn't there? *grins*

[kaydeefalls.livejournal.com]

It's freakin' Pippin, man. Can't. Resist. The. Charm.

Well, yes, of course. I could never fault you for that. ;)

Yes, but there's a lot of PJ love to go around, isn't there? *grins*

I'm starting to get a rather disturbing mental image of PJ-as-pimp... ::shudders::

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[gabbyhope.livejournal.com]

I'm starting to get a rather disturbing mental image of PJ-as-pimp...

Now *that* would make a fairly bizarre AU... can't you just picture him in the get-up? (Shoeless, of course.)

"Where's my bitches, yo?"

And, and, I ehm... think I love your icon. I can't stop staring at it. guh.

[kaydeefalls.livejournal.com]

Now *that* would make a fairly bizarre AU... can't you just picture him in the get-up?

I'm trying not to...

think I love your icon. I can't stop staring at it. guh.

Ah, yes, the power of the Dom!Tongue. Almost as potent as the Pippin. ;)

[troisroyaumes]

I agree with everything you said (including Frodo about to claim the Ring at Osgiliath) except for the Faramir bit. Am I the only person who liked book!Faramir? I mean, personally, I identified a lot with him. He's NOT a goody-two-shoes, at least not in my opinion. He's read a lot and has been taught by Gandalf--he *knows* what's the right thing to do and he does it. And I think he's a pretty interesting character, from what tidbits Tolkien drops. His father doesn't like him because he's too much like Denethor, not like macho old Boromir marching off to do stupid things. He's too careful, too cautious, too likely to become like Denethor, a bitter old man sitting on the Steward's seat, forced into despair by his knowledge.

And in the movie, he's just stupid. Conflicted, perhaps, but stupid. Argh.

...Tari

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[kaydeefalls.livejournal.com]

I don't think he's less intelligent in the movie. Intelligent people can still be seduced by the ring. That's part of its cruel intrigue: that innately good people can still be corrupted. Anyway, I think Faramir's main problem here was editing. I've heard of several other scenes examining his motivations which were cut from the movie. Hopefully, they'll make their way back into the Extended DVD.