AoU and also crowdsourcing: LGBTQ characters!

[kaydeefalls]

Have seen Age of Ultron twice. Thought it had some pacing issues, and some of the character beats felt off (mostly due to the pacing issues), but in general I definitely liked it. Enjoyed it more the second time, probably because I'd made peace with the things I didn't like as much and could just enjoy it on its own merits. But I generally enjoy Marvel movies more on rewatching than on first viewing, not sure why. Fandom's hate-on for this movie (and all things Whedon in general) is kind of upsetting me deeply, so I'd rather not dissect it further right now. I'm super aware that my fave is problematic and I absolutely agree, but I still really love the Whedonverse, including his forays into Avengers. I don't think the MCU is where he's at his best, and I'm glad he's stepping out of the franchise now, both because I think the MCU in general can be stronger with Marcus & McFeely and the Russo brothers at the helm AND because I want Joss to go back to doing his own thing instead of playing with other people's toys. But all the hate is really dragging me down, and I need fandom to be my happy place right now so I'm just gonna dive back into Steve/Bucky(/Sam/Natasha) fic and ignore the rest of fandom until the dust settles.

Please don't comment on this post to harsh my squee, is what I'm saying, because I really don't want to be guilted for the things I love. Which includes AVENGERS v2.0 OMG I AM SO BEHIND THE NEW TEAM GIVE ME ALL OF THE TEAM!FIC WITH STEVE AND NAT AND SAM AND RHODEY AND WANDA AND VISION (AND BUCKY AND I THINK LADY SIF SHOULD SUB IN AS WELL).

Next up: I'm trying to compile a list of LGBTQ characters in geeky genres for an upcoming trivia and I need your help! Because I don't know all of the fandoms, obvs. I'm looking for TEXTUALLY queer characters (as in, not just subtext/slash goggles) in any of the following genres: sci-fi, fantasy, horror, comics/graphic novels/manga, video games, anime/cartoons. I know sci-fi/fantasy pretty well, but very much need help in the comics/anime/gaming areas. And in particular I don't know of many trans* characters, so tell me what you've got!


TV shows
BtVS: Willow, Tara, Kennedy, Andrew, Larry
Firefly: Inara (is bi, damnit)
True Blood: Lafayette, Tara, Jesus, basically all the vampires to some extent
Supernatural: Charlie
Torchwood: Jack, Ianto, Tosh
Doctor Who: Madame Vastra, Jenny, Canton
DS9: Jadzia Dax
BSG: Gaeta, Hoshi, Cain
Xena: Xena, Gabrielle (these two are pushing it, because I don't think they're technically canon)
Orphan Black: Cosima, Delphine, Felix, Tony
SGU: Camile Wray
The 100: Clarke Griffin, Lexa
Flash: Captain Singh
Arrow: Nyssa Al Ghul, Sara Lance
Once Upon a Time: Mulan
Lost Girl: Bo, Tamsin, Lauren
Warehouse 13: HG Wells, Steve Jinks
Babylon 5: Susan Ivanova, Talia Winters

Comics
Marvel: Iceman, Victoria Hand, Northstar, Wiccan, Hulkling, America Chavez, Mystique, Destiny, Xavin, Karolina Dean, Loki, David Alleyne, Julie Power, Brandon Sharpe, Xi'an Coy Manh, Juilo Richter, Shatterstar, James Howlett & Hercules
DC: Batwoman, Renee Montoya, Maggie Sawyer, Selina Kyle, Eiko Hasigawa, Midnighter, Apollo, Alysia Yeoh, Frankie Charles, Holly Robinson, Cullen Row
Morning Glories: Hisao, Guillame
Saga: Upsher, Doff
Rat Queens: Betty, Faeyri

Movies/Books
Rocky Horror: all of the characters, basically
Harry Potter: Dumbledore (sigh)
Dune: Baron Harkonen (double sigh)
Game of Thrones: Renly, Loras
Raven Cycle: Ronan
Vorkosigan Saga: Aral Vorkosigan, Ethan of Athos, Ges Vorutyer, Dono Vorutyer
Temeraire: John Granby

Anime/Cartoons
LoK: Korra, Asami
Sailor Moon: Michiru, Haruka

Video Games
Fear Effect: Hana Tsu-Vachel
Dragon Age: The Warden, Hawke, The Inquisitor (player characters, female or male, can be whatever you want), Dorian Pavus (gay), Sera (lesbian), Anders, Fenris, Iron Bull, Isabela, Josephine Montilyet, Lace Harding, Leliana, Merrill, Zevran Arainai (bisexual or pansexual), Cremisius "Krem" Aclassi, Maevaris Tilani (trans*)
Mass Effect: Shepard (female or male, can be whatever you want), Steve Cortez (gay), Samantha Traynor (lesbian), Diana Allers, Kaidan Alenko, Kelly Chambers (bisexual or pansexual), Liara T'Soni, Morinth, Samara (are from a monogendered species and can romance anyone regardless of gender)

Comments

[musesfool]

Marvel: Billy Kaplan, Teddy Altman

DC: Maggie Sawyer, Nyssa al Ghul, Sara Lance (the latter two are on Arrow), also, Captain Singh on The Flash

Legend of Korra: Korra, Asami Sato

The 100: Clarke Griffin, Lexa

The Raven Cycle: Ronan Lynch

[such_heights]

Haha, you beat me to both the Korrasami suggestion and the icon use! <3

[kaydeefalls]

HOW THE FUCK DID I FORGET KORRASAMI AND BILLY/TEDDY

Adding 'em to the list!

[such_heights]

Totally here for the MCU happy place. <3

And for queer characters - Korra & Asami! For gaming, I know there are lots of LGBTQ characters in Mass Effect and Dragon Age, though I don't know them well enough to be specific.

[kaydeefalls]

I am kicking myself a lot for forgetting Korrasami. And good tips on the video games, thanks!

[jadelennox]

Tv

Lost Girl: Bo, Tamsin, Lauren
Slings and Arrows: Oliver, Cyril, Frank

Books:

Seven Kingdoms / Cashore: Fire, Saf, Raffin, Bann, Skye, Bren, Tilda.
Summer Prince / Johnson: Gil, Enki
Vorkosiverse / Bujold: Dono/Donna (arguably), Aral, Ethan of Athos, Terrence
Ann Leckie books: sort of, everyone in the radch, by our standards
Tortall / Pierce: Daja
Comics

Love and Rockets: Maggie, Hopey
Strangers in Paradise: almost all the female characters

[kaydeefalls]

Awesome, thanks! A few of those fandoms are a bit too obscure for this trivia (not because they're actually obscure -- it's a know-your-audience thing, sigh), but on the plus side, I now have some new books to add to my to-read list. :)

[lotesse]

in the Vorkosigan Saga, Aral Vorkosigan is canonically bi, his sadistic paramour Ges Vorutyer (sigh) is gay, and Dono Vorutyer is trans.

[kaydeefalls]

Despite having read the Vorkosigan saga for the first time fairly recently, I TOTALLY FORGOT that Aral was bi. Awesome!

[lilacsigil]

More comics!

Marvel: Victor Borkowski (Anole) and his sometimes boyfriend Jonas Greymalkin, Isabel Hartley (Victoria Hand's girlfriend), Moondragon and Phyla Vell, Brian Falsworth (the first Union Jack), Kyle Jinadu (Northstar's husband), Bloke from X-Statix.

If alternate universes count, there's a James Howlett (Wolverine), Governor of Canada and Hercules.

Warehouse 13: HG (Helena) Wells is canonically bisexual, Steve Jinks is canonically gay.

[kaydeefalls]

HELL YEAH I totally meant to include the AU!Wolverine on my list. And the others too!

[dhampyresa]

Jack is also in Doctor Who, you know. And possibly the Master/Missy counts as trans/non-binary/genderfluid? Not sure.

[kaydeefalls]

Yes, I know Jack started on Who, but I already know I'm gonna ask a Jack/Ianto question so he's Torchwood for the purposes of this trivia. :) Hmmm, Missy...must ponder. IDK that she would consider herself trans or genderfluid...

[dhampyresa]

Oh! Doctor Who also has Cassandra of "Moisturise me!" fame, who is MtF.

[fiercynn]

Just wanted to say that I'm sorry fandom's reactions to AoU are getting you down, and if there's anything I can do, including listening to squeeing (or ranting about other people's hate), I'm totally happy to! I remember you were super supportive to me after I had a similar reaction after Star Trek Into Darkness, and I still really appreciate that. I have to confess that this movie wasn't for me, but I see a lot of the merit in it, so I'm really glad to see those who did get a lot out of it being vocal about that, and would love to listen if you want to talk about it at any point! <3

[kaydeefalls]

It's totally cool if this movie wasn't your thing! It's just the virulent HATE and Whedon-bashing that's getting me down, sigh. The irony is that in my group of non-fandom friends, I've been the most vocally critical of AoU, because yes it is flawed and there is great value in discussing those flaws, but...I still really enjoyed it, and being told that I'm a bad person for doing so is not so much fun. :/ Thanks for the support, it means a lot!

[rabid_bookwyrm]

Books: The Necromancer Chronicles (trilogy) by Amanda Downum - Drowning City had various queer side characters, no one especially noteworthy except that in itself that is noteworthy. Drowning City has a PLETHORA of queermos of the most wonderful stripe. I don't have the book to hand, so I'm probably missing people. Savedra Severos, Ashlin, Kiril, Varys Severos, Dahlia, Nikos are all important characters. To save on spoilers, I will only say that between them they are bi, trans, and intersex. The third, Kingdom of Dust has several recurring characters from the previous books and other bi or gay characters. The impression one gets of the world in general is that a fluid sexuality is much more socially acceptable than here-and-now.

Vorkosigan Saga also has Oliver Jole, Aral Vorkosigan's lover with his wife's full consent. I also think it's totally shitty to dismiss Dono Vorrutyer as "arguably" trans - it's true his experience doesn't map precisely onto the modern American idea, but he explicitly and intentionally transitions from a female body and role in society to a male body and role. Done.

Captive Prince, Prince's Gambit, and Kings Rising by C.S. Pacat focus on the relationship and eventual love affair of Laurent (probably gay) and Damien (explicitly bi), there are other queer relationships throughout the books.

Ancillary Justice, Ann Leckie, the main character doesn't have a gender and it is not clear at all from the text what sex body they inhabit. The dominant culture doesn't have a gender binary, so the gender of most characters is actually totally uncertain. The default pronoun throughout is "she."

The Nightrunner series by Lynn Flewelling, central characters are a gay couple.

Ellen Kushner, Riverside series, ditto.

Comics:

"Oh Human Star" by Blue Deliquanti. Central relationship is gay, a different central character is the android reincarnation of one of the other characters, and she is trans.

"Decrypting Rita" a central character in one reality-line grew up as two tractor combines and a little girl. She is in a relationship with a female-coded android.

I could keep going all night! But I'm not going to, I have work in the morning. Sorry I ran out of interest in digging up people's names half way through. The bookshelves are way on the other side of the room. So far.

[rabid_bookwyrm]

Ah, though, trigger warnings for C.S. Pacat - dubcon, noncon, slavery, underage consentual sex, implied underage noncon (past), wicked uncles, power exchange, politics, second book ends in a cliffhanger and the third one isn't out yet so beware. Go with caution.

[kaydeefalls]

I am totally using this list as my personal to-read list for the future, it is awesome. :D Vorkosigan is the only one I've read, although I haven't worked my way through the full series yet. Thanks for the recs!

For the purposes of this particular trivia, tragically, a lot of these books are probably too "obscure" to work, sigh. (It's a comics-movies-gaming-and-anime sort of crowd, unfortunately -- unless it's, like, Tolkien or Harry Potter or Game of Thrones, a lot of book questions are much tougher to sell, and it's no fun writing questions that NO ONE can answer.)

[rabid_bookwyrm]

Yay! But aw. Yeah, I'm trying to think of mainstreamier queer characters... Doctor Who, 10th Doctor episode Midnight, Sky has just broken up with her wife. There's also the (ugh) tall short fat thin I hate you Moffatt gay catholic space marines. Because who needs names with descriptors like that.

Irene Adler in Sherlock identifies as gay. Since I am prone to take people at their word about things like that, I believe her.

I think that one of the side characters in Caprica was explicitly queer, but I never actually watched it. I didn't watch all of BSG, but were we thrown no bones there?

I'm pretty sure Xena is textually bi.

And the actor who played Ioulus in Hercules also played other characters in single episodes. At least one was a woman. Couldn't tell you which season. I feel like that adds a dimension of queerness, if not exactly what you're looking for.

Every one of the Valdemar books I've read had a queer relationship somewhere in it. Vanyel (Magic's Promise, Magic's Price, Magic's something I can't remember now) is the only gay central figure in the ones I read, but there may have been more after I gave up.

Boston Legal's (male) main characters got married at the end of the series. They were not in a sexual relationship and I believe both identified as straight.

Tamora Pierce, Lioness Quartet - Alanna, the main character, spends the first two books disguised as a boy. She has trans experiences, but does not identify as trans and returns to female identification after she is outed. That's another sort of edge-case.

Except for the last one, I don't know that I would rush to add this batch to your read/watch list.

[settiai]

Babylon 5: Susan Ivanova (bisexual), Talia Winters (bisexual)

Dragon Age: The Warden, Hawke, The Inquisitor (player characters, female or male, can be whatever you want), Dorian Pavus (gay), Sera (lesbian), Anders, Fenris, Iron Bull, Isabela, Josephine Montilyet, Lace Harding, Leliana, Merrill, Zevran Arainai (bisexual or pansexual), Cremisius "Krem" Aclassi, Maevaris Tilani (trans*)

Mass Effect: Shepard (female or male, can be whatever you want), Steve Cortez (gay), Samantha Traynor (lesbian), Diana Allers, Kaidan Alenko, Kelly Chambers (bisexual or pansexual), Jack (bisexual - she can't be romanced by f!Shep but she has dialogue where she specifically says she sleeps with both men and women), Liara T'Soni, Morinth, Samara (are from a monogendered species and can romance anyone regardless of gender)

Once Upon a Time: Mulan (bisexual or lesbian, it's not quite specified)

Oh, and then there's the Julian Lynes and Ned Mathey series. The two titular characters are both gay.

John Granby from the Temeraire series.

On the comics front, there's Betty and Faeyri from Rat Queens.

There's also Haruka and Michiru from Sailor Moon. The fact that the two of them are in a relationship is more blatant in the manga, but it's present in anime and other adaptations as well.

[kaydeefalls]

YAY VIDEO GAME CHARACTERS, THANK YOU!

[settiai]

On the video game front, there's also Juhani from Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.

Also, the just-recently-released novel Lords of the Sith featured a character named Moff Mors who's the first LGBT character in the official Star Wars canon.

[schneefink]

This made me realize how bad the Dresden Files are at LGBTQ representation. A few White Court vampires (sex demons, basically) are explicitly bi, but iirc only women. Maybe Lara Raith.

[kaydeefalls]

Alas!

[rabid_bookwyrm]

Oh Butcher. Almost there... but not quite. I always got the feeling that the things I reallllllllly wanted Harry to learn, he was never going to, because they were things the author himself wasn't entirely aware of.

[(Anonymous)]

Lestat in the Anne Rice vampire series is either gay or bi. So are the many of the other characters.

Someone else already mentioned the Valdemar series and all the homo/bi sexuals in that (there are a lot).